Re: Proposition: Upgrade APP to an Online Community

Dear Gordon:

"Sense of community" my ass!

This list is so far out of control it's not funny. You (and other so-called
list minders) have allowed this list to degenerate into a hostile,
back-biting platform that allows and encourages negative political
commentary, ad-hominem attacks and other off-topic nonsense to flourish and
thrive.

I am sick and tired of the politics. I don't care. I am very offended when
other list members use this forum to continually slam Bush and Cheney. For
Gods sake, what the hell does it have to do with PHOTOGRAPHY? How bad does
it look to list members outside the United States to constantly read this
total crap about politics?

I've been active on the Internet for over 10 years, involved in this and 3
other hobby-oriented mailing lists. This alt-photo list is by far the worst
in regards to off-topic crap and flaming.

Gordon, you need to grow a spine and put an end to this nonsense.

Best regards,
Dave in Wyoming

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon J. Holtslander" <holtsg@duke.usask.ca>
To: <alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: Proposition: Upgrade APP to an Online Community

>
> I recognize that a mailing list is not the ideal forum, but I think a web
> based forum is worse.
>
> I think a web based forum would lead to a disjointed epheremal discussion
> - with people randomly joining and leaving the discussion. It would
> become even less focussed with even more offtopic material. Does anyone
> remember the usenet photo groups? disjointed, random, often mean and ugly.
>
> The dialogs that take place here are valuable.
>
> The list for all it faults, has built a sense of community, and continuity
> that no technology can usurp. This is the most valuable thing of this
> list. I think it would be lost if not done as a mailing list.
>
> If somone can come up with a better way of creating a forum with the same
> sense of community, continuity and commitment I would welcome it.
>
> I would not run the list as a yahoo mailing list - I would only use a
> mailing list service that I have significant control over. I had
> considered moving the list to a hosting service where I could run the list
> manager of my choice, but this could not be done cheaply. The list has
> such a hight volume that it could not be done on an inexpensive shared
> hosting account. It would have to be done through a co-location service.
> These cost at least $150.00 per month. It would be necessary to add a lot
> of advertising or subscription fees. This would add a lot unwanted
> information, or limit the access to the list. I don't like either option.
>
> The University of Saskatchewan is supporting this mailing list and the
> archive space - neither of which could be done elsewhere without
> considerable expense.
>
> I would love to tie in some web based features - a wiki, a common image
> gallery. None of these can be supported over the long term cheaply. If
> there is a way of providing a more or less permanent location for these I
> would have no reservations over using them.
>
> I don't pretent to "own" the "alt-photo" presence on the internet. If
> anyone would like to set up a different forum, they are free to do so.
>
> I do think this list has developed a very good sense of community. This
> isn't my doing - but due to the overwhelming sense of cooperation,
> collaboration and mutual respect of its members. I don't think this
> should be squandered.
>
> Gord
> List Manager
>
> On Tue, 25 Apr 2006, Michael Koch-Schulte wrote:
>
> >
> > This list is great, but this list is crazy (and constantly acting like a
> > patient off their meds'). Why is this? I participate in a lot of lists
> > and online groups. I've noticed, very few have the ability to make blood
> > boil/run cold like this list. It seems to come in waves. But that's
> > passion for you. The reason I stay subscribed to this list is mostly
> > because of the vast wealth of experience and talent found here, with few
> > exceptions. Most of those exceptions are people like me -- those just
> > trying to learn something (maybe one day I'll be able to teach others a
> > thing or two who knows).
>
> > The problem is this: the alt-photo-process list is a one-room school
> > house, and it's getting crowded. Can you imagine a campus where they
> > threw the agriculture and fine-art faculty together in the same
> > building? With no walls?! Never mind the rest of the faculties!
> > There's a reason they put them in different areas. (By my second year
> > I found out it's mostly, it's so they don't try to murder one another,
> > or accidentally sleep with a student from the wrong faculty). Lately,
> > I've been noticing that the competition to this list (read:
> > alternativephotography.com and APUG) are becoming stronger and
> > stronger. Why is this? Could it be that interest in the subject of alt
> > photography is growing? I have nothing agaist either of the
> > aforementioned organizations, in fact I revel in them. Nothing wrong
> > with a little competition, it's suppose to keep us on our toes, right?
> > I touched on the problem once before. Mail lists are an older
> > technology. Pre world wide web. Not an older photographic technology
> > (which we love), but an older tele-communications technology (somebody
> > else's bag o' fun no doubt, but not mine). The list needs new digs. It
> > can be kept as a mail list for those that want to subscribe and
> > receive e-mails, but branch out and embrace the trend toward web-based
> > online discussion groups/communities. They offer features which would
> > enhance the alt photo process community. Technologically, this could
> > go in one of two directions. The first would be to use an existing
> > commercial system (e.g. yahoo groups) to host the community. The
> > benefits would be that there would be a miminum of fuss, cost and a
> > standard set of features. The down side is sovereignty, a word that
> > touches a nerve here in Canada at least. Or, it could be a system
> > similar to the ArsDigita software ie. photo.net, apug, or
> > alternativephotography.com. Run it as a independent not-for-profit
> > DOT-ORG with a board of directors, charge $10-$20 (voluntary) a year
> > to join which could go toward covering back-end expenses like storage
> > and upgrades.
>
> > The big advantage besides online galleries. Online forums. A simple way
> > of keeping the pigs, sheep and cows from eating from the second year
> > class' mixed media project called "Godel, Escher and Skittles" or
> > whatever. There are things which make this community unique, but it's
> > not the software that runs the mail system. I wish I could put it to a
> > vote right now...but there's no way to do this.
> >
> > ~m
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Gordon J. Holtslander Dept. of Biology
> holtsg@duke.usask.ca 112 Science Place
> http://duke.usask.ca/~holtsg University of Saskatchewan
> Tel (306) 966-4433 Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
> Fax (306) 966-4461 Canada S7N 5E2
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
Received on Wed Apr 26 22:33:37 2006