It is quite disturbing that people are entirely
missing the point being made here. It it is
indisputable that contributing to a given thread with
an answer that, in effect, says "I know the answer to
this, but would prefer you acquired said information
from me in a paid workshop environment" leaves one
with only hunger and no food, as it were. But the
larger point is that some of us have moved beyond
knowledge qua knowledge into the realm of, shall we
say, meta-knowledge. In simpler terms appropriate to
someone who may struggle with complex concepts that
scholars like Terry can handle with both ease and
elan, this is knowledge of a higher degree: e.g. it is
less important exactly what we know, and more salient
that the list recognizes that we know. Would one
expect that Druid priests just tossed off all of their
hard-earned knowledge to any ploughsman that asked for
it? I doubt it. I'm sure at the very least, the hand
of a fair maiden would be the de minimis pecuniary
recompense for any useful information.
--- TERRYAKING@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Witho
>
> I have been teaching alternative processes very
> successfully for a very long
> time.and I have given a hell of a lot.. There are
> generations of students who
> will attest to this.
>
> If you had read things more carefully.you would have
> seen that your
> perception was wrong. You are not aware of the facts
> and you draw the wrong
> conclusions; this leads to your being
> unjustifiably offensive. But I suspect that was
> your intention.
>
> I would like to see things improve. I suggest that
> you prefer the status quo.
>
> When I joined this list it was good but later,
> whenever I have set anything
> up, such as APIS, somebody on this list attacked
> it. This is true not just
> for me but is true for many others who would leave
> as they could not see the
> point in putting up with this kind of nonsense. They
> had better things to do.
>
> Somebody, who is a subscriber to this list has told
> me that the way I have
> neen treated in the last week or so was 'absolutely
> disgusting'. In fact it
> was like being in a school playground. .
>
> I am a good teacher and have developed and
> suggested methods that are now
> common in discussions on this list but now, when I
> suggest a way of doing
> things, instead of accepting that it is a legitimate
> approach open for discussion,
> it is pooh-poohed as it is not the accepted way of
> doing things. You need
> some intiative here, not long discussions of
> insignificant and useless details.
>
> When I suggest other ways of making sizes for
> platinum prints, someone tells
> me that he cannot see the point as gelatine is good
> for the methods he uses
> and implies that as he has not come across yellowing
> in albumenised paper it can
> be of no significance..Now this is significant as
> the person concerned is a
> guru on this list. I mention it as the most recent
> example. of many.
>
> When I suggest that one can make develop gum prints
> in seconds rather than
> hours, it is either ignored or I am told that my
> puddle pusher methods will
> produce 'rotten' prints. Not very helpful for those
> trying to learn.
>
> Recently when I made a simple comment about gum
> printing I got an emotional
> and irrational spiel. This is not the first time
> this has happened.
>
> Once, earlier, when I pointed out that a leading
> light had got something
> wrong I was told that I would not know what had hit
> me and that there would be
> blood on the carpet. I was even told that I could
> stay on the list if I did not
> mention gum printing. I left. and stayed away.
>
> That is why I am defensive. That is why I suggest
> that people should attend
> conferences such as APIS in Santa Fe or in England
> as that is where you can
> get a reasonable standard of discussion.That is why
> I, and many others do not
> 'give' as much as they might to this list. That is
> why I save things for
> conferences. The 'benefit' is a rational exchange of
> ideas. Sometimes, but only
> sometimes does one get that here
>
> Sometimes one thinks that may be a chance that
> things could improve but one
> is quickly dissillusioned by comments such as
> yours...
>
> There is a silent majority who would prefer less
> domination by a few and
> fewer of these silly attacks. They complain, but
> do nothing.
>
> This list should be a place where people of like
> mind can discuss things in
> an adult and informed manner. I am afraid that this
> is just not true . This
> list cannot be taken seriously until it is properly
> administered.
>
> I suggest that, if you have a serious interest in
> alternative photography,
> you should attend conferences, go to exhibitions and
> museums , and read the
> books and manuals. Incidentally, the author of one
> of the best manuals for those
> starting in alternative photography, who happens to
> be a friend of mine, joined
> this list but left quickly when all he got was
> insults. I hope that you take
> the point.
>
> This list has given others a bad name but if anyone
> is seeking a reasonable
> level of discussion go to
>
> the B&S web site
>
> or
>
> artaltphoto@yahoogroups.co.uk
>
> Incidentally , the answer to the yellowing problem
> is that one uses an
> organic rather than a mineral acid for clearing. It
> is in the manuals.
>
>
>
>
> Terry
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 22/07/2006 10:21:47 GMT Daylight
> Time, info@witho.nl
> writes:
>
> >
> > Hello Terry,
> >
> >
> >
> > Why do you invite everybody to a conference or a
> workshop in stead of
> > sharing what you know in this forum. Like this
> albumen question you again play your
> > hide and seek game. You mention a problem
> (yellowing) which you have
> > overcome but in stead of sharing how you start an
> argument (in a lengthy way). Just
> > tell on list what is your solution to a problem in
> stead of referring to
> > literature, experience and testing. All people
> acquire information the same way
> > as you. So help the inexperienced in stead of
> telling them over and over that
> > you have found a better solution. If you want to
> help people with their
> > attitude towards learning do it of list. If you
> want to contribute with wisdom do
> > it straight forward without hesitation and without
> the expectancy of benefit.
> > If you feel that you have achieved it to be a
> master or a teacher behave
> > like one.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Witho
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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Received on 07/23/06-12:04:54 AM Z
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0 : 08/31/06-12:23:48 PM Z CST