Re: sodium citrate, ammonium citrate, bleeding of borders

Fresh mixed, but the am citrate is a week older than the sod citrate.

No staining problems that I can see...just that bleeding. Maybe it is
normal? It is when you see black metal stuff streaming off the edges of the
print. I hope I am using the correct term "bleeding" here. And it is
happening in the am citrate where the pH is 4.8, not the sod where it is
7.1.

Hey, sometimes this pt/pd stuff feels more complex than gum :)!
Chris

> Chris, How old and seasoned are your developers? Staining will be very
> very
> slight, if it happens at all, in a fresh developer but may start to be a
> problem as the developer build up materials from previous prints; metal
> salts, ferric, ferrous, and buffers, paper bits, etc.
>
> And pH will change over the life of a developer if steps are not taken to
> maintain it with both additional amounts of fresh
> as well as addition of an appropriate acid.
>
>
> Eric
>
> Eric Neilsen Photography
> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
> Dallas, TX 75226
> 214-827-8301
> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
>
> Skype : ejprinter
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Christina Z. Anderson [mailto:zphoto@montana.net]
>> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 10:23 AM
>> To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
>> Subject: Re: sodium citrate, ammonium citrate, bleeding of
>> borders
>>
>> Sandy,
>> In what way does the acidity have a big impact on printing? In
>> the way the
>> print looks finally or in the way it processes? I think a while
>> back you had
>> said that you get staining if the developer does not stay acid
>> but I am not
>> seeing that happen.
>>
>> BTW, Sam also told me you've tested am and sod side by side and
>> may know the
>> speed/dif between the two. Does your result match mine--sod
>> being a bit
>> lower contrast, 1/4 stop slower maybe at most, and a bit
>> yellower in tone?
>> Chris
>>
>> >I use sodium citrate for printing kallitype, and sometime with
>> > palladium (though for palladium I prefer potassium oxalate).
>> What I
>> > use is Trisodium Citrate, C6H5Na3O7, 258.07. When mixed with
>> > distilled water the resulting pH is about 7.0. I bring this
>> down to
>> > about pH 6.0 by adding more citric acid to the mix, and this
>> has a
>> > big impact on printing.
>>
>>
>> One could also add citric acid to an ammonium
>> > citrate solution to reduce pH.
>> >
>> > In any event, I do agree that it would be best to test these
>> two
>> > solutions at the same pH to create a valid comparison in
>> printing
>> > characteristics, because pH does make a big difference, and
>> you
>> > especially want to avoid allowing the solutions to become
>> slightly
>> > base.
>> >
>> >
>> > Sandy
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>Oh pooh, Roger! I threw away the jar. I knew I should've
>> kept it.
>> >>
>> >>I got it from Tri-Ess when it was in business, but since they
>> closed
>> >>I threw away the catalog, too, so I can't even check back.
>> But if
>> >>someone has an old catalog of TriEss it would be in there. I
>> know
>> >>it was written on the label, anyway.
>> >>I had no idea there were three types!
>> >>Chris
>> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "permadocument"
>> <info@permadocument.be>
>> >>To: <alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca>
>> >>Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 2:18 AM
>> >>Subject: Re: sodium citrate, ammonium citrate, bleeding of
>> borders
>> >>
>> >>>Dear Chris,
>> >>>
>> >>>Can you tell us what sodium citrate you used; monosodium
>> (pH= 3,4-4,0),
>> >>>disodium (pH=5,0) or trisodium (pH=7,5-9,0)?
>> >>>Thanks,
>> >>>Roger
>> >>>
>> >>>--
>> >>>Roger Kockaerts
>> >>>Permadocument - pH7
>> >>>Rue des Balkans, 7
>> >>>B-1180 Brussels
>> >>>Tel.:32-2-347 66 76
>> >>>Fax: 32-2-344 43 04
>> >>>TVA: BE 0438 246 889
>> >>>web page: <http://www.permadocument.be>
>> >>>
>> >
>
>
>
Received on 07/24/06-10:19:28 AM Z