RE: that NY Times article

Bob,

I agree with your suggestions. All of us should take a deep breath,
exhale slowly and chill out.

However, one important correction. Dave and Gerry (not Tom) were
unsubscribed from the list for obscenities and vicious personal
attacks, not for their political opinions. They should have been
unsubscribed from the list for that kind of behavior, and good
riddance. If this kind of behavior had taken place in the work place
it would be considered harassment. There should be no tolerance of it
here.

And regardless of what any individual list member may feel about
political commentary, let me remind you that the five basis rules of
the list as spelled out by Gordon, do not prohibit such comment. They
are,

"There are five basic rules for using this list. Treat everyone with
respect. Do not use profanity. Don't send unsubscribe requests to the
list, don't send messages with attachments, and don't send viruses
through the list."

So, let's talk alt photography, treat people whose political opinions
differ form ours with respect, and remember that all of us can not be
the "decider."

Sandy

>I believe Gordon will confirm that the two who were removed were NOT
>removed for their
>political rants but for their obscenely sexist and personal attacks. I hope
>Dave and Tom can be convinced to, and will be permitted to, return to the
>list...however these are two VERY different questions. The reason they have
>been blocked should be made CRYSTAL clear...it was not their politics...it
>was their obscene sexism and personal attacks.
>Do I wish we could all concentrate on Alt Photo? Sure. The reality is that
>we are living the famous Chinese curse, "May you live in interesting times".
>Well, the times, they are interesting and they spill over into just about
>every part of life.
>Soooooooooooooooooo, I ask the following of the entire list:
>1) Take a deep breath and exhale slowly.
>2) Let's TRY to concentrate on Alt. Photo.
>3) If we do get political, let's try to follow Gordon's list rules (You
>should all have them today as it is the first of the month) and NOT indulge
>in personal attacks. Offer differing political views if you must but stay
>away from Mr. Ad Hominem.
>
>Well, I am not a list minder and I hope my suggestions will be seen as well
>intended.
> HAPPY MAY DAY!
> CHEERS!
> BOB
>
> Please check my website: http://www.bobkiss.com/
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: gws1@columbia.edu [mailto:gws1@columbia.edu]
>Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 9:53 AM
>To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
>Subject: Re: that NY Times article
>
>
>I disagree, political discussion will not kill this list! I noted
>before and will again that, using the letpress list as an example, it
>is possible to have a vigorous and vital listserv discussion with NO
>moderation what-so-ever; and some of the discussions on the letpress
>list make anything that has ever happened here look rather
>insignificant. I think it is wrong that anybody has been "removed"
>for anything that has been said here. Short of making physical
>threats I think we are all adult enough to deal with anything that
>might come our way here.
>
>I make (or don't make) many of my photographs BECAUSE of my political
>beliefs as have many other photographers whose work I admire. My
>interest in alt-photo comes, at least in part, from my political
>beliefs, as I know is the case for at least a few others here. My
>ability to make photographs has, in fact, been impacted by the rampant
>fascism (and I do not use that term lightly) currently in vogue here
>in the U.S. and I don't think it is prudent to be silent on matters
>that are of consequence to myself or my friends, my country or the
>world. FWIW, "left" and "right" no longer have any meaning, at least
>to me; facts do. Democrats and Republicans both drink from the same
>trough and are beholden to the same masters. This "alt-photo" storm
>will blow over and when the dust settles we will all get back to the
>business of making pictures in our own ways maybe even with a few new
>twists. There are, I'm sure "sterile" venues that probably lack the
>intimacy of this list available if one only wants to write about
>paper, pigments and other issues related to the "technical" side of
>photography; or perhaps I missed something and alt-photo is only about
>affixing an image to a surface and has nothing to do with the image
>itself.
>
>
>Best, and good luck to us all -greg
>
>On Mon, 1 May 2006, Christina Z. Anderson wrote:
>
>> Amen, sista!
>> Chris
>>
>>> But what you seem to have failed to grasp is that the community includes
>>> Dave Rose and Tom Ferguson and other people who don't agree with you
>about
>>> politics, and room and respect must be offered and restraint must be
>>> exercised so that people of all political stances can feel comfortable
>>> belonging here and discussing photography. I am probably to the left of
>>> almost any US citizen here, but I don't want Tom Ferguson called a nazi
>>> any more than I want people who agree with me politically to be called
>>> names. The point is that our political opinions should not be of
>interest
>>> here, one way or the other, because this is not a political list. The
>only
>>> thing of interest here is alternative photography. Those who choose to
>>> continue making this a political list, will kill this list.
>>>
>>> Katharine Thayer
>>>
>>
>>
Received on 05/01/06-09:20:56 AM Z