RE: that NY Times article

As mentioned in my earlier postings I enjoy debate and even some good
obscenities. I had no problem with the tirades from anyone. What upset me
were the specific sexist and personal attacks using obscenity.
Passion? Anger? Righteousness? Heck yeah! I think we are discussing a
matter of degree and some of those removed went over the top. I believe
Gordon will confirm that the two who were removed were NOT removed for their
political rants but for their obscenely sexist and personal attacks. I hope
Dave and Tom can be convinced to, and will be permitted to, return to the
list...however these are two VERY different questions. The reason they have
been blocked should be made CRYSTAL clear...it was not their politics...it
was their obscene sexism and personal attacks.
Do I wish we could all concentrate on Alt Photo? Sure. The reality is that
we are living the famous Chinese curse, "May you live in interesting times".
Well, the times, they are interesting and they spill over into just about
every part of life.
Soooooooooooooooooo, I ask the following of the entire list:
1) Take a deep breath and exhale slowly.
2) Let's TRY to concentrate on Alt. Photo.
3) If we do get political, let's try to follow Gordon's list rules (You
should all have them today as it is the first of the month) and NOT indulge
in personal attacks. Offer differing political views if you must but stay
away from Mr. Ad Hominem.

Well, I am not a list minder and I hope my suggestions will be seen as well
intended.
        HAPPY MAY DAY!
                CHEERS!
                        BOB

 Please check my website: http://www.bobkiss.com/

-----Original Message-----
From: gws1@columbia.edu [mailto:gws1@columbia.edu]
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 9:53 AM
To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
Subject: Re: that NY Times article

I disagree, political discussion will not kill this list! I noted
before and will again that, using the letpress list as an example, it
is possible to have a vigorous and vital listserv discussion with NO
moderation what-so-ever; and some of the discussions on the letpress
list make anything that has ever happened here look rather
insignificant. I think it is wrong that anybody has been "removed"
for anything that has been said here. Short of making physical
threats I think we are all adult enough to deal with anything that
might come our way here.

I make (or don't make) many of my photographs BECAUSE of my political
beliefs as have many other photographers whose work I admire. My
interest in alt-photo comes, at least in part, from my political
beliefs, as I know is the case for at least a few others here. My
ability to make photographs has, in fact, been impacted by the rampant
fascism (and I do not use that term lightly) currently in vogue here
in the U.S. and I don't think it is prudent to be silent on matters
that are of consequence to myself or my friends, my country or the
world. FWIW, "left" and "right" no longer have any meaning, at least
to me; facts do. Democrats and Republicans both drink from the same
trough and are beholden to the same masters. This "alt-photo" storm
will blow over and when the dust settles we will all get back to the
business of making pictures in our own ways maybe even with a few new
twists. There are, I'm sure "sterile" venues that probably lack the
intimacy of this list available if one only wants to write about
paper, pigments and other issues related to the "technical" side of
photography; or perhaps I missed something and alt-photo is only about
affixing an image to a surface and has nothing to do with the image
itself.

Best, and good luck to us all -greg

On Mon, 1 May 2006, Christina Z. Anderson wrote:

> Amen, sista!
> Chris
>
>> But what you seem to have failed to grasp is that the community includes
>> Dave Rose and Tom Ferguson and other people who don't agree with you
about
>> politics, and room and respect must be offered and restraint must be
>> exercised so that people of all political stances can feel comfortable
>> belonging here and discussing photography. I am probably to the left of
>> almost any US citizen here, but I don't want Tom Ferguson called a nazi
>> any more than I want people who agree with me politically to be called
>> names. The point is that our political opinions should not be of
interest
>> here, one way or the other, because this is not a political list. The
only
>> thing of interest here is alternative photography. Those who choose to
>> continue making this a political list, will kill this list.
>>
>> Katharine Thayer
>>
>
>
Received on 05/01/06-08:36:46 AM Z