U of S | Mailing List Archive | alt-photo-process-l | Re: Bleach and Direct Carbon / Direct Carbon Paper Available on TheMar

Re: Bleach and Direct Carbon / Direct Carbon Paper Available on TheMarket?

Reply to 1:

Discovered? Let's say "have recently been made aware of" - that sounds more

I may wish to try something else just for fun and/or the sake of it
(struggling makes you learn many many things), but only if I have the luxury
of sparing time for it in that specific slice of time. Plus, I forgot, I may
also need some incentive:

Unfortunately, I have much less time - compared to what I would like to have
- for practicing photography / experimenting with new processes. I work in a
full time job and I can only experiment in night time, photograph in the
weekends. (Let's say it was so until two weeks ago - since I left my job
then, because I will join the military force for six months obligatory
military service this Wednesday!)

Therefore, the incentive should be pretty strong - in my case. That's why
I'm asking so perseveringly -> about your results, pros and cons of your

I can't sense that incentive - yet. (And I consider myself as a pretty eager
person.) We'll see how I'll feel 6-7 months later (maybe a little bit

About list membership status of Mike Ware: Most probably / as I know it, but
why don't you ask him directly if you want to be perfectly sure?

Reply to 2:

Even though I understand that the "hand made" quality - that I assume we're
all after - exist in the development phase of your process, I think it's not
strong enough to justify the usage a PIA off-standard process. (In other
words: an alt-process. By standard I mean current technology such as:
inkjet, lightjet, lambda, ilfochrome ect...) To me, alt-processeses are all
about being hand-made, self-made; I like to be able to choose the material
(paper, pigments ect.) to my liking and artistic(!) vision, plus, I need to
able to purchase them locally. (Both very important points.)

Yes, conceptually, we still need factory made material / tools in order to
make the negatives (either film or digital), but the more I'm free /
independent the better the process is to me...

Therefore, to me, a ready-made direct carbon paper isn't interesting /
desirable at all - unless it provides a quality irreplaceable by other
means. ???


> Quotation 1
> -----------
> From: John Grocott <john.grocott403@ntlworld.com>
> Reply-To: <alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca>
> Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 19:58:23 +0000
> To: <alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca>
> Subject: Re: Re. Bleach and Direct Carbon
> Loris,
>           You state that the Bleach Gum process you have recently discovered
> is quite satisfactory to your liking, but I sense that you may wish to try
> something else as you are an educator and experimenter, yourself.  All I can
> suggest is that you look back thru' the archives and be aware that I am  not
> the only one working on the commercial production of a Direct Carbon paper.
>                  Out of respect I cannot mention names, at present, for many
> reasons.
> From the speed at which you appear to have managed to assimilate the
> information from Marek on Bleach Gum, there should be no need for me to go
> over all the clues I have given in the past.
> All I will say, again, is that the ''Arvel'' process  looks as if it is the
> nearest to my own.   There were no published formulae for the ''Arvel''
> coatings as with the more well known Fresson sawdust process.
> If this really means anything to you I know you will pursue the research and
> then you will have your secrets, too. You seem to have all the fascilities
> available at your disposal to do this.
> Are you sure Dr.Mike Ware is not a member of this List ?
> More prints on w/s to mystify in due course.
> Ciao for now.
> John - Photographist - London - UK

> Quotation 2
> -----------
> From: John Grocott <john.grocott403@ntlworld.com>
> Reply-To: <alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca>
> Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 20:32:22 +0000
> To: The List <alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca>
> Subject: Direct Carbon Paper Available on The Market ?
> Direct Carbon Paper
> To The Thousands Reading This Posting,
> It may be some long time, if ever, before a Direct Carbon Print Paper  will
> become available on the market, again.  But if and when it is seen to be a
> viable, commercial financial proposition, what should the attributes of such
> an alternative photo product offer the potential customer ?
>  ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
> 1. Good quality paper base. Possibly, the choice of the buyer.
> 2.  Coated but unsensitized ready for immersion in a low percentage solution.
> 3. Development with no issues of temperature control of solutions.
> 4. Instructions on UV exposure.
> 5. Control of the density and detail by various means of abrasion ; spray,
> sawdust, brush, foam pad etc.'
> Will this mythical paper ever be available to buy, again ?  Who or what will
> decide the issue ?
> Has anyone yet devised an exploitable process to make the above a reality for
> an individual or a corporate company ?
> Maybe its better to leave the secrets in the hands of a few.
> Have a Nice Day.
> Cheers
> John - Photographist -London - UK