RE: archivalness of gum
DEAR KATHERINE,
Which is what I asked in my posting three hours ago...has anyone
determined that the ghost image is, indeed, pt/pd metal? I found the same
ghosting on a BACKING board with silver-gelatin prints.
Jury still out?
HOLIDAY CHEERS!
BOB
-----Original Message-----
From: Katharine Thayer [mailto:kthayer@pacifier.com]
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 12:09 PM
To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
Subject: Re: archivalness of gum
Well, now that I've read the article, (thanks, John!) I see that
(assuming the author is knowledgeable on the subject) no one has
actually tested to see whether the transfer constitutes a transfer of
platinum metal to the facing paper or not. And the fact the
transferred image can appear on the back side of the print as well as
on a facing paper also seems to suggest that it's not a transfer of
metal from the surface of the print that's causing the ghost image.
So it looks like my analogy isn't apt.
kt
On Dec 20, 2007, at 8:24 PM, Katharine Thayer wrote:
> If you faced a charcoal or graphite drawing with a piece of paper,
> a small amount of the charcoal would come off onto the facing paper
> too, but that wouldn't make the charcoal any less archival in and
> of itself, it just means you want to be sure to frame it so that
> it doesn't rub off on anything. I'm not sure I understand why the
> fact that a small portion of the metal that comprises a platinum
> print could rub off on something else detracts from its
> archivality. Is it likely to lose enough metal from the surface
> to actually degrade the image?
>
> kt
>
>
>
> On Dec 20, 2007, at 7:53 PM, Diana Bloomfield wrote:
>
>
>> Hey Chris,
>>
>> Well, that's where you and I differ (the belief that carbon and
>> gum is the most archival-- instead of platinum). :) Honestly,
>> today is the first time I've ever heard the news that platinum
>> isn't the most archival. That said, the "ghosting" that you and
>> Sandy both mentioned-- I'm curious-- how much time does that take
>> to occur (a week? decades?), and under what type of
>> circumstances, or does that not matter? I'm also curious -- did
>> your curator mention what he/she believed to be the most archival?
>>
>> Thanks, Chris.
>>
>> Diana
>>
>>
>> On Dec 20, 2007, at 10:26 PM, Christina Z. Anderson wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Judy, Gawain,Diane, etc.
>>> Diane--platinum ghosts onto paper it is in contact with so it
>>> loses some of its precious metal in storage I remember Dusan
>>> Stulik telling us/showing us at an APIS. In fact, this is a
>>> method to determine whether a print is a platinum one or not.
>>>
>>> I was always under the assumption that carbon and gum were THE
>>> most archival of all processes. That is why this curator's
>>> comment surprised me so much. I have yet to come across any
>>> discussion of degradation of gum prints except for the one
>>> article talking about the fading of the dichromate image within
>>> the gum print. This can be easily demoed by leaving a gum print
>>> in the sun for an afternoon, half covered by something for
>>> comparison's sake.
>>>
>>> Judy, gum over platinum has been done since 1902, invented by
>>> Herbert Silberer, an Austrian.
>>>
>>> Holland Day did it as did quite a few other Americans, and I have
>>> never heard that wasn't archival either. In fact, one author said
>>> the French were known for one coat gums, the Germans for multiple
>>> coat gums, and the Americans for gum over platinum.
>>>
>>> Gawain, I have seen some original Kuhn's at A Gallery of Fine
>>> Photography that were perfect, and just hanging on the walls
>>> there like no big deal. He was a master printer of the multiple
>>> gum, as was Demachy...but the bug thing has got to be an issue
>>> and I wonder if use of formaldehyde for hardening gelatin gives
>>> the benefit of preserving it from bugs...oh, the cracking in the
>>> dark thing...I wonder if sizing would contribute to that phenomenon?
>>>
>>> So what I have deduced, after this discussion to date, is gum is
>>> what I think it is and I wasn't whistling Dixie. I wonder if
>>> Wilhelm has studied gum stability???
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> And also, by the way, gum over platinum is an historic process
>>>> -- if
>>>> memory serves (which I can't promise, MEMORY is NOT archival) Paul
>>>> Anderson (heh heh) did it, but also I think Heinrich Kuhn, among
>>>> others. I
>>>> believe it was fairly well known... Then again there were many
>>>> kinds of
>>>> "platinum" including a commercial "platinum paper" -- who was the
>>>> Englishman who swore he'd stop photographing when that paper was
>>>> discontinued? He had the same name as a photo historian or
>>>> other pioneer,
>>>> but ... as noted, this memory is not archival.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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