From: Brian Ellis (bellis60@earthlink.net)
Date: 09/17/01-02:42:01 PM Z
Thanks Dave, very well put. I was beginning to think I was the only one who
took offense at her most arrogant, vitriolic, and insensitive message. It's
amazing that 5,000 innocent civilians can be murdered and the country in
which she lives is thrown into turmoil, but all she can think to talk about
is how bad the World Trade Center was, how bad the police are, how bad the
United States government is, how bad George Bush is, etc. etc.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Rose" <photo@wir.net>
To: <alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: (OT) the view from 1.6 miles
> This is off topic and lengthy. If you don't like it, don't complain, just
> hit "delete".
>
> I feel strongly that Judy's comments cannot stand without a response. I
> have a much different view from 2,200 miles away.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Judy Seigel" <jseigel@panix.com>
> To: <alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 12:20 AM
> Subject: the view from 1.6 miles (thanks Dave!)
>
>
> (SNIP)
> > Firemen have always been the good guys (as opposed to police who have
been
> > intermittently very bad guys), rescuing citizens from their/our own
> > silliness and/or a range of disasters.
>
> Thanks to the police, you're not getting mugged when you set foot on the
> streets of Manhattan. The police are NOT "intermittently very bad guys".
> Criminals however, are very bad guys. Heaven forbid you should ever need
> the assistance of police..... maybe then your attitude would change.
>
> > Fortunately, the US did rack up credits in the middle of 20th century,
> > when, as fallible humans, we did our best to help former deadly enemies
on
> > road to democracy. But many Americans are unaware of our abysmal acts
> > since then, or that we, too, have sponsored terror. Not to mention that
> > Bin Laden was once our buddy. Aren't all terrorist movements ultimately
> > funded with US money -- oil money? (Just two years at Florida flight
> > school costs $40,000 per, not to mention ordnance, organization and car
> > rentals.)
>
> Very clever Judy, damn with faint praise and then stick the knife in.
Your
> rhetoric could have been written by Osama bin Laden or Saddam Hussein for
> the instruction manual given to their America-hating followers. That a
> fellow United States citizen would write this (especially given recent
> events) is a disgrace. What "abysmal acts"? You're damn right, I'm not
> aware of any. You wrote "we, too, have sponsored terror." How about
citing
> some specific examples? You cheapen and degrade the meaning of the word
> 'terror'. Our government is not perfect, but there is nothing our
> government has done that comes close to the absolute horror perpetrated on
> New York and Washington last Tuesday.
>
> You wrote, "Aren't all terrorist movements ultimately funded with US
> money -- oil money?" No, definitely not. For example, Timothy McVeigh
was
> not in the oil business. The primary motivation for terrorists is blind
> hatred and a total disregard for human life. Are you not in some small,
> indirect way encouraging and validating the actions of terrorists with
your
> clearly expressed hatred of our government?
>
> > If we'd controlled our greed for oil, and that of US companies profiting
> > from oil, Saudi Arabia (for instance) would still be a nation of camel
> > herders.
>
> Whoops.... you're not being 'politically correct' with your derogatory
> "camel herders" appellation.
>
> Nor did we change tack even after the 1973 oil embargo. When OPEC
> > dropped prices, we promptly abandoned work on alternative energy. And
now
> > we want it both ways: "the American way of life" with the SUVs, while
> > expecting countries with the oil to take our orders re Talaban &
> > terrorists.
>
> Maybe you should go to Central Park to chop wood to heat your apartment?
Or
> do you already do that?
>
> > I'm warned incidentally that comments about US bad behavior at large are
> > safely made on either coast, but could get me lynched in the middle...
> > certainly seemed that way when WNYC went off the air and I had to listen
> > to call in radio from ABC -- switched & got the instant packaging and
bad
> > grammar on CBS.
>
> What makes you think that residents of the coasts should agree with your
> hate-America attitude? BTW, there are people "in the middle" who think
like
> you, and we are not bent on lynching, as you insinuate. Individual rights
> and personal freedom are cherished values in the heartland. We support
your
> right to free speech, no matter how much I or anyone else may find it
> offensive.
>
> Your hostile attitudes are alien to the vast majority of Americans. Your
> politics are radical, extreme, and way out of place on a forum that
> discusses photography. If you hate America, the oil companies, and the
> police so much, you should consider moving to North Korea, Iraq, or
> Afghanistan. There you can live in a cave, gather berries, chop wood, and
> remain true to your ideals.
>
> IMO, you should get down on your knees and thank God there are people in
> this country (the military and the government you've disparaged) who are
> willing to sacrifice their lives to protect the freedoms and the way of
life
> that you enjoy.
>
> I'm glad to hear that you and your family are safe. Here in Wyoming, a
> coworker of mine lost her sister-in-law and a cousin in the Washington
> terror attack. The horror strikes very close to home, even if the view is
> from 2,200 miles away.
>
> Best regards,
> Dave Rose
> Powell, Wyoming
>
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