RE: Platinum Palladium Speak (RE: Trivia time: room temperature solubility of platinic acid)

I don't consider myself confused or befuddled, but I am sorry if my omission
early added to others confusion and befuddlement. I know that Platinic acid
works as a contrast agent with mixed coating solutions because I have done
it, tested it, do it and show it as an option to students. I know that
sodium based palladium is warmer than ammonium based prints and I only
question whether Clay will see a difference when he does his side by side
comparison with Na2 - the contrast agent and Platinic Acid with mixed
prints, and palladium prints. It is clear that the small amount of platinum
in the contrast agent, Na2 cools prints of sodium palladium. But will even
less sodium cool it even more? H vs Na. Or would that variable be more
evident in an ammonium based palladium print, if Na2 were used as the
contrast agent; warming the print?

Cheers,

EJ Neilsen

 
Eric Neilsen Photography
4101 Commerce Street
Suite 9
Dallas, TX 75226
http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
http://ericneilsenphotography.com
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sandy King [mailto:sanking@clemson.edu]
> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 8:29 PM
> To: alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
> Subject: Re: Platinum Palladium Speak (RE: Trivia time: room temperature
> solubility of platinic acid)
>
> Eric,
>
> Welcome to the club of the sometimes confused and befuddled, but
> otherwise gifted and talented, Pt./Pd. printers.
>
>
>
> Sandy
>
>
> >As the day grew longer, I realized that I too fell into the trap of
> speaking
> >as if everyone did platinum printing like I do. That is to say, when I
> use
> >the term platinum prints, it should read 50% platinum salt (potassium
> based)
> >and 50% palladium (could be a mix of sodium and ammonium, but sometimes
> also
> >lithium) however they are all used at .7M . And of course you KNOW that
> I
> >make my own ferric oxalate ; )
> >
> >But you all knew that right : )
> >
> >
> >
> >Just like I am supposed to know that you mean sodium based palladium mix
> at
> >X% because that is the way you always do it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >EJ Neilsen
> >
> >
> >
> >Eric Neilsen Photography
> >4101 Commerce Street
> >Suite 9
> >Dallas, TX 75226
> >http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
> >http://ericneilsenphotography.com
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Eric Neilsen [mailto:e.neilsen@worldnet.att.net]
> >> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 8:37 AM
> >> To: alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
> >> Subject: RE: Trivia time: room temperature solubility of platinic acid
> >>
> >> Have you tried it with platinum? I can assure you that Platinic acid
> will
> >> change the contrast of coating mixture substantially even with
> platinum
> >> within the solution from standard potassium based platinum salt.
> >>
> >> Eric Neilsen Photography
> >> 4101 Commerce Street
> >> Suite 9
> >> Dallas, TX 75226
> >> http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
> >> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Clay [mailto:wcharmon@wt.net]
> >> > Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 8:12 AM
> >> > To: alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
> >> > Subject: Re: Trivia time: room temperature solubility of platinic
> acid
> >> >
> >> > The problem is that using Na2 as a contrast agent only works with
> >> > pure palladium prints. Any platinum in the mix and the Na2 reverts
> >> > from the +4 oxidation state to the +2 oxidation state.
> >> >
> >> > Yes, it will still cool the tone in a lithium palladium print.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Dec 9, 2005, at 7:57 AM, Eric Neilsen wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Maybe in my brevity I should have included a platinum (oops
> >> > > palladium) terms
> >> > > like the recent Gum thread. When I used Na, it meant Sodium the
> >> > > element;
> >> > > when I used Na2 that was in reference to the contrast agent. Those
> >> > > would
> >> > > have two different impacts on a print.
> >> > >
> >> > > Na2 can also be part of the chemical expression for the palladium
> >> > > salt,
> >> > > Na2[PdCl4]. That is not how Na2 was being used here.
> >> > >
> >> > > Clay, have you see your mixed prints, platinum and palladium,
> >> > > showing the
> >> > > same quick cool down? Or only those where the only metal salt was
> >> > > Na2[PdcCl4]? And have any of you, seen a significant cooling of a
> >> > > print made
> >> > > with NH4 as your base for the palladium solution? Or for lithium?
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > I agree with everyone about Na2 - it takes only a small
> >> > >> amount to
> >> > >> significantly cool down a palladium print, ceteris paribus
> >> > >
> >> > > I haven't seen it with my ammonium palladium prints. It may be
> that
> >> > > with all
> >> > > palladium prints made with sodium based palladium only, that
> ceteris
> >> > > paribus, applies. I would also add that before one can start
> >> > > attributing
> >> > > too many characteristics to a particular part of a palladium
> print,
> >> > > all
> >> > > components need to be listed and accounted for. The ferric oxalate
> >> > > will play
> >> > > a roll in the color of your print. The full interaction of all the
> >> > > components have not been tested by me recently, but about 6 years
> ago,
> >> > > sutble differences in color could be achieved by using a ferric
> >> > > oxalate from
> >> > > B&S, The Formulary, Artcraft or my homemade brew.
> >> > >
> >> > > The color shift may in part be due to interactions not based on
> >> > > sodium but
> >> > > pH changes. We all wait your test.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Eric Neilsen Photography
> > > > > 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
> >> > > Dallas, TX 75226
> >> > > 214-827-8301
> >> > > http://ericneilsenphotography.com
> >> > >> -----Original Message-----
> >> > >> From: Clay [mailto:wcharmon@wt.net]
> >> > >> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 5:33 AM
> >> > >> To: alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
> >> > >> Subject: Re: Trivia time: room temperature solubility of
> >> > >> platinic acid
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I'll let you know. The stuff is still in a small plastic bag in
> >> > >> the
> >> > >> form of crystals. So experimentation is forthcoming.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I agree with everyone about Na2 - it takes only a small
> >> > >> amount to
> >> > >> significantly cool down a palladium print, ceteris paribus.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Clay
> >> > >> On Dec 8, 2005, at 11:46 PM, Eric Neilsen wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> Well, Yes. Perhaps my point missed both you and Sandy. Does
> >> > >> the Na2
> >> > >>> produce
> >> > >>> prints of warmer color than prints made using Platinic Acid,
> >> > >> where
> >> > >>> the Na is
> >> > >>> replaced in the compound by H. Discounting the effect that PT
> >> > >> would
> >> > >>> have on
> >> > >>> the image tone by cooling it down a bit, and since the same
> >> > >> amount of
> >> > >>> platinum is in both the magical Na2 and in Platinic Acid,
> >> > >> what then
> >> > >>> accounts
> >> > >>> for any difference in image color?
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> So Clay, have you used both? What say ye?
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Eric Neilsen Photography
> >> > >>> 4101 Commerce Street
> >> > >>> Suite 9
> >> > >>> Dallas, TX 75226
> >> > >>> http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
> >> > >>> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >> > >>>> From: Kerik [mailto:kerik@kerik.com]
> >> > >>>> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 5:52 PM
> >> > >>>> To: alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
> >> > >>>> Subject: Re: Trivia time: room temperature solubility of
> >> > >> platinic
> >> > >>>> acid
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 17:18:43 -0600, Eric Neilsen
> >> > >>>> <e.neilsen@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>> In fact I can see no reason why it wouldn't
> >> > >>>>> work as well or better than Na2. Better? More neutral. Na
> >> > >> has a
> >> > >>>>> tendency
> >> > >>>>> to warm up palladium prints, so I'd expect the elimination
> >> > >> of it to
> >> > >>>>> reduce the warmth of your print.
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> Hmmm... no. Na2 causes Pd prints to shift towards neutral.
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> Kerik Kouklis
> >> > >>>> www.kerik.com
> >> > >>>
> >> > >
Received on Sat Dec 10 23:38:06 2005