Re: How old are we? ***VERY*** OLD !!

Camden, I'm moved to disagree with you and to do so publicly. In part
because in my opinion (and I may be one of the oldest subscribers to the
list, both in absolute years and years on the list -- about 8 years ago
Gord told me I was the 15th "oldest" --that is in time on the list -- and
no doubt since then a few have departed in distraction or error) I think
one of the reasons the list has lasted so long with such energy -- and
made not just a larger community, but many communities within the
community, is that a certain amount of *human* expression takes place.
So that's one reason I think you err in saying in effect "just can it."

I find a couple of other reasons, too. I think you are probably
brilliant, serious, smart, good natured, clever, talented, generous and
hard working, but I suspect you're also young, and certainly young on the
list. So, frankly, I find it presumptuous (word used advisedly, though
maybe I should just say "naive") that after one month on the list, you
presume to tell the rest of us how to behave. I think ALSO, you take too
much for granted, that is, you judge others by yourself, and since you
wouldn't lie, scheme, connive, seek some imaginary advantage by destroying
"competition" (the really smart person allies with "competition" and picks
their brains), or played a game of "you and him fight" with total mastery,
you don't imagine others doing so, and you have also apparently taken at
face value a very shallow report of the past.

I am grateful for Dean's defense -- it means at least one person isn't
amnesiac... but the schemes perpetrated were beyond any imagining of sane
people. I had death threats (I'm not making this up) and a couple of
folks who witnessed them, normally quite staid and reserved, were
sufficiently alarmed to forward them to me. I admit to being rather
tickled, perhaps foolishly, but feeling (in those days anyway) protected
by "the pond," it made me seem important, which can be a nice feeling if
you don't get hooked on it... nice for once in a while, anyway. Other
times it makes art & learning harder.

I'm tempted to point out that in my experience there has never been a
single time that the person in question here (naming no names of course)
EVER mentioned any past event that was not, at the very least, twisted
upside down and inside out, often totally fabricated. And sometimes saying
one thing today and the opposite tomorrow.(For one very tiny point, that
issue of Post-Factory was actually a love letter to the list, although I'd
had to leave it, hounded off by the very same...)

These -- and MORE -- are things known to many of us.. and we have
generally managed NOT to get suckered in again. What seems to have
happened this time, is that some folks who weren't around the last time
and were um, peeved, at the provocations, the baiting and bossing, let
that come out.

And good for them, I say. Very possibly all to the good... it made
EVERYBODY human, not just letters on a screen. Some behavior SHOULD be
addressed. (I add here, which will probably convince you that I'm a nut
case... be my guest... that I once scolded a man who had NOT cleaned up
after his dog on our block, scolding him out loud all the way to the
subway, which was several blocks-- we have a pooper scooper law here
which, in the neighborhood, where the neighbors do watch -- keeps the area
inhabitable, because there are almost more dogs than people, and most
folks do comply... and then as this fellow was about to duck with relief
into the subway, I asked, '"If you knew that every time you DIDN'T clean
up you were going to be scolded in public like that, would you then clean
up?" He rolled his eyes, and said fervently, "Oh, yes."

In other words generally speaking social pressure is effective. Except
where it feeds the pathology, or a certain sado-masochism... As a shrink I
know put it, "Even the man being flogged in the village square, is THE
CENTER OF ATTENTION !." Still, it makes the folks who've been offended
feel less helpless. They've at least made a gesture of disapproval. And
improved their blood pressure by ventilating.

Which is to say,the situation isn't as simple as you might think... your
concern for list comity is appreciated, but I think needs some
tempering... In fact you may be contributing to the situation you deplore.

with all good wishes, hopes for the best & appreciation that you care...

Judy

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006, Camden Hardy wrote:

> Do we really have nothing better to do than bitch and moan about a select
> few members on this list?
>
> If a certain person bothers you, there are a few things you can do:
> 1) Read the person's posts (sometimes skip the reading step), then openly
> criticize everything they say (I won't name any names here).
> 2) Read the person's posts. If for some reason you feel the need to reply
> (whether you agree or disagree), do so respectfully.
> 3) Use that handy little "delete" button (sometimes appears as a big "X")
> and don't even bother reading their posts.
>
> Personally, I prefer to see options 2 & 3, but more often than not I see
> #1. I waste more time wading through the posts in category #1 than I do
> actually reading informative messages. This should NOT be the case.
>
> This list was intended for folks to help each other, not name calling. If
> you want to call each other names, do it off list so we don't have to hear
> about it.
>
> Camden Hardy
>
> camden@hardyphotography.net
> http://www.hardyphotography.net
>
>
Received on 07/28/06-12:41:50 AM Z