Re: How old are we? ***VERY*** OLD !!

Judy,

I think you greatly misunderstood what I was trying to say.

> So that's one reason I think you err in saying in effect "just can it."

I too believe that "human expression" is a good thing. Far be it from me
to disallow everyone that right. However, my message was not simply "just
can it". There are myriad ways for people to express disapproval of
someone else without resorting to name calling and the like (I wish I had
kept some of those emails so I could provide examples). That's where I'm
drawing the line here.

> I find a couple of other reasons, too. I think you are probably
> brilliant, serious, smart, good natured, clever, talented, generous and
> hard working, but I suspect you're also young, and certainly young on the
> list. So, frankly, I find it presumptuous (word used advisedly, though
> maybe I should just say "naive") that after one month on the list, you
> presume to tell the rest of us how to behave.

You're right; I am young (a mere 22), and somewhat new to the list. But
I'm not as naive as you think. And for this reason, I absolutely do not
presume to tell everyone how to behave. If someone has personal problems
with another, that's fine. What bothers me is to check my email in the
morning and find it full of shouting matches. That's not why I joined the
list, and I'm assuming that's not what was in mind when the list was
created. Let me stress this again: healthy, mature disagreement is great;
in fact, this list would be nothing without it. BUT (and this is a big
but)...when the fights move away from the topic at hand into the realm of
personal attacks, in my opinion that's crossing the line.

> I think ALSO, you take too
> much for granted, that is, you judge others by yourself, and since you
> wouldn't lie, scheme, connive, seek some imaginary advantage by destroying
> "competition" (the really smart person allies with "competition" and picks
> their brains), or played a game of "you and him fight" with total mastery,
> you don't imagine others doing so, and you have also apparently taken at
> face value a very shallow report of the past.

This is just my personal opinion, but I don't see myself as judgemental,
or even all that competitive (on this list anyway...haven't been here long
enough to compete with anyone). In fact, I go to great lengths to avoid
judging without all the information. Also, I'd like to make clear (again)
that what happened in the past is none of my concern. This topic had
nothing to do with past events.

> I had death threats (I'm not making this up) and a couple of
> folks who witnessed them, normally quite staid and reserved, were
> sufficiently alarmed to forward them to me.

This would be an example of what I'm calling "unacceptable". :)

> I'm tempted to point out that in my experience there has never been a
> single time that the person in question here (naming no names of course)
> EVER mentioned any past event that was not, at the very least, twisted
> upside down and inside out, often totally fabricated. And sometimes saying
> one thing today and the opposite tomorrow.(For one very tiny point, that
> issue of Post-Factory was actually a love letter to the list, although I'd
> had to leave it, hounded off by the very same...)

This happens, and this is why I'm not concerned about the past. I've
heard enough (completely) different versions of the same story from other
list members via private email to be aware of this. I don't presume to
know what happened, nor will I ever truely know, no matter how many people
tell me.

> Some behavior SHOULD be
> addressed.

Exactly my point. :)

> In fact you may be contributing to the situation you deplore.

While this was not my original intention, judging by some of the off-list
emails I've received, I think you may be right (unfortunately). I seem to
have made some "allies" as well as "enemies" with this topic
(politics...gotta love em), which also was not my intention; although, in
retrospect, I should have seen it coming.

Anyway, despite the consequences, I don't regret posting the original
message. I strongly believe that this list would be a much better place
if we all stayed productive, instead of posting personal insults like
children. Please no one take this the wrong way; I love this list, so
don't send me any messages telling me to unsubscribe (I would have done so
already).

Camden Hardy

camden@hardyphotography.net
http://www.hardyphotography.net
Received on 07/28/06-10:01:51 AM Z