[OT] = *O*T* Flames and such

well put, Eric;
there's a certain amount of ethnocentrism (and very often egocentrism)
involved whenever any of us opens our mouth: we assume that what we say
will be *perfectly* and *clearly* understood by others (or at least will
be taken in the way we want it to be).

with listservs (and really any written email), the very fact that we're
*not* opening our mouth(s) adds further confusion to the mix; meaning
from written language can mutate quite rapidly from sender to receiver.

that said, Eric's call for restraint is very appropriate (and much
appreciated).

name-calling and other knee-jerk reactions tend to quickly dehumanize
the people to whom we are responding (e.g. s/he is no longer a
contributor, but a sexist, racist, etc. etc.; insensitive for referring
to a transsexual former list-member "insensitively")... so rather than
make these personality characteristics known to the list, perhaps a bit
of restraint would be best in handling them OFF list.

that's my first and last (2) cents on the matter. if anyone takes issue
with what i have said, please feel free to respond

O
F
F

L
I
S
T

OFF LIST!

i suggest all such similar matters be taken offlist as well

kris
kris@eq-photo.com

Eric Neilsen wrote:
> Sandy et al, It has been a big pain to be a list member when episodes
> like this last one erupt. I have seen so many over the years, 10 years
> or so, that I have lost track. The contributors come from all over and
> from all walks of life. There needs to be a bit of latitude shown when
> “less than polite” language is used. As this family has grown and
> changed, we have seen large contributions by various people; Sullivan,
> Terry King, Nadeau. Some times it is very obvious to all what is going
> on and sometimes not so.
>
>
>
> For the list to be vibrant and healthy, diversity is a must. So for
> those with a weak skin, please continue to sit quietly in the back until
> you can take it on the chin if you chime in and get popped. If this
> list will teach you any thing, it is that art, the practice of or
> learning of, is not a soft place. It is full of hard knocks and nasty
> people. Some times very helpful people and hopefully those are the ones
> that fill your needs the most. The others you tolerate like the jerks on
> the other highway made of asphalt.
>
>
>
> I use the delete button often, and don’t really mind doing so. Could
> much of this last go round about Richard, aka Jewelia / paper goddess/??
> been avoided. Most certainly. In my personal contact with this person,
> I found someone knowledgeable but a bit like grappa; an acquired taste.
>
>
>
> I am not promoting the use of harsh language and tough love in the
> arts. But there are those that believe that even in art, if I yell loud
> enough, that makes me right. Well we all know that it just ain’t so.
>
>
>
> If some list members need to take a break to chill let’s hope they do.
> Maybe it is spring break build up, cabin fever, ??? We can have honest
> disagreements without insults. Have a nice weekend all.
>
>
>
> EJ Neilsen
>
>
>
>
>
> Eric Neilsen Photography
>
> 4101 Commerce Street
>
> Suite 9
>
> Dallas, TX 75226
>
> http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
>
> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* Sandy King [mailto:sanking@clemson.edu]
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 12, 2005 6:08 PM
> *To:* alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
> *Subject:* Re: Fibber McGee's Closet
>
>
>
>
>
> To my previous message I would like to add one further comment.
>
> List minders Dave Soemarko and Bob Schramm stood by and said nothing in
> response to Judy Seigel's nasty personal attack on Mr. Ptak. In fact,
> they gave tacit approval to her attack by their on-list expression of
> full support for Seigel. I would suggest, and request, that they also
> resign as list minders, as I have done, and that Gordon appoint a new
> set of list minders from the membership of the list, using such
> rationale as he might choose to apply. Persons who have obviously lost
> the ability to be impartial in matters of list protocol should not serve
> in the capacity as list minders.
>
>
> Sandy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> From: Sandy King <sanking@clemson.edu>
>> Subject: Re: Fibber McGee's Closet
>> Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 11:22:31 -0500
>>
>>> Ryuji should not have called her a cockroach. However, as for more
>>> recent comments that have referred to her rudeness, rancor,
>>> obnoxious attitude and sexist rants, that is not name calling in my
>>> opinion. It is, to be blunt, calling a spade a spade.
>>
>> Although I never made clarification, when I said cockroach I had in
>> mind someone (male) who keeps himself busy with insignificant issues,
>> and bring them to me from time to time, not just on this list but on
>> other places as well. The real cockroach act is currently dealt with
>> by ignoring the bug. I used that word in reply to Judy, but the way I
>> wrote was in the context of the "burden" of this list, and the word
>> did not refer to Judy.
>>
>> But she took it that way and I didn't spend one email to deny it; the
>> time was already in the ULF era.
>>
>> I'm sure you can reasonably guess how I feel about the rest, but I
>> just thought to post one correction now. My only post to this list
>> using "cockroach" is quoted below.
>> --
>> Ryuji Suzuki
>> "Well, believing is all right, just don't let the wrong people know
>> what it's all about." (Bob Dylan, Need a Woman, 1982)
>>
>>
>> From: Ryuji Suzuki <rs@silvergrain.org>
>> Subject: Re: ULF photography
>> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 00:43:07 -0500 (EST)
>>
>>> From: Judy Seigel <jseigel@panix.com>
>>> Subject: Re: ULF photography
>>> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 00:09:25 -0500 (EST)
>>>
>>> > The point is that the mandate, goal and joy of this list has always
>>> > been sharing information.
>>>
>>> And the burden and pain of this list has always been bullshits,
>>> cockroach experts and disputes for trivial issues masking the truly
>>> useful information. Well, that seems true of almost any internet forum
>>> and mailing lists. Well, I'll limite my irony to one paragraph per
>>> post.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ryuji Suzuki
>>> "People seldom do what they believe in. They do what is convenient,
>>> then repent." (Bob Dylan, Brownsville Girl, 1986)
>>>
>>
>
>
Received on Sun Mar 13 08:46:57 2005