Re: Off-Topic, New Orleans Images

Hello,

I hope you don't mind if I interject; I am not an American but a
neighbour who lives in that country to the north of your border at the
49th parallel and below the North Pole and who has a morbid fascination
  with American Politics. I won't bore you with Canadian politics and
social mores.

Joachim brings up the point of the over increasing prohibition on
photographing certain sites. On several photo lists, I have heard
similar stories over and over again. I find this very scary. Every
summer I usually spend a week in the Anza Borrego State Park in S. Cal.
  After the winter we have and the humidity, I need that heat and arid
air. Anyway, i always drive up to visit the Mt Palomar Observatory on
the other side of Wagner and I love to drive up the mountain, I think
you go through 4 micro climates as you change elevation. I'm thinging,
that I shouldn't be taking pictures up there any more. A security
threat. Mt Palomar. But I can't help thinking that.

I'm just curious why you put up with this? Where's the 4th amendment,
free speech. Like where does it end? Orwell, 1984. What I find
insidious is that its creeps along, a little bit more every day. The
Patriot Act?

Just to give you a different spin on things that you bring up, there are
a lot of people up here who think that the USA is slowly turning into a
fascist state. Please, I am only the messanger and I'm just telling you
how some of us see it. So please, no flammes. Whether you agree or not
is irrelevant; That's how you are perceived. It is a reality of life,
others see you differently from the way you see yourselves. And we're
worried. Where will it end? Soon you will need a passport to get back
into your own country if you are coming back from Canada or Mexico.
The noose tightens very slowly. What next, compulsory ID's.

The dire poverty that I saw in LA, people living in stacked containers.
  For a moment I though I was in India. Somebody told me they were
illegals, so, they are still human beings. And the poor people in New
Orleans. Up here, people don't understand that people are still living
in hotels and their allowances are being cut. The deveastation that
still exists. Looks like a war zone from the reportage we get up here.
40 million Americans don't have health coverage???? Of seven highly
advanced countries in the area of health care, like Holland, Belgium,
Germany, France, the Scandinavian countries, Canada, Britain and the US,
the US has the highest infant mortality rate. These are statistics
shown to me by a colleague who teaches pediatric nursing. Like what
gives? Everybody up here is unanimous that Bush and his cohorts lied
about the war in Iraq. Here, it's a given, the facts are all there,
oil. People ask why he isn't impeached for lying. And let's not get
into Cheney and his merry band of pranskers at Halburton (sp?). That
shooting incident, It was the joke of the year up here. The victim
apologizing????? And you put up with that. We don't understand.

Like I said, you may or may not agree with what I am passing on, so I
don't want to get into a discussion but that's the perception up here.

Hope I didn't offend anybody; that was not my intent. just a public
service broadcast :)

My 2 loonies worth :)

Regards,
Bogdan

joachim oppenheimer wrote:
> Photography, especially alt-photo-proc, is wed to politics. Think of John
> Heartfield's (Hertzfeld) photomontages as a typical example. When politics
> and photography are divorced there is no longer photography and only
> monocular politics. May I cite a personal recent experience? I set up my
> camera that included a fenced-off abandoned early twentieth century
> waterworks about 100 yards distant. A large sign where I stood explained
> that this would become a park. I was at such a distance from the property's
> fence that I could not see a small sign, much less read it, which I later
> learned stated that photography was prohibited. A police car approached me
> with a warning. The police parked nearby and watched me impatiently as I
> folded my tripod and collected my gear too slowly to please the authorities.
> I soon found myself addressed in a most ungentlemanly manner in voices
> decibels above polite. Restrictions to keep the homeland safe had trickled
> down to this pedestrian level that a photo, that might include a distant
> former waterworks, becomes a security threat. What could have been an
> interesting platinum print, or perhaps an image for the scrap heap, died
> unborn. Both Democrats and Republicans created the atmosphere and
> regulations that resurrected a modified version of the Sedition Act of 1798.
> Regardless of which political group is in executive control, it behooves us
> to respect our government but to speak out against its excesses so that we,
> and the visual language of photography, can be creative in a free society.
> That's politics, too, and it's certainly as much about photography as are
> silver nitrate, light and lenses. Joachim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sandy King [mailto:sanking@clemson.edu]
> Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 7:41 PM
> To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
> Subject: Re: Off-Topic, New Orleans Images
>
>
> Tom,
>
> I respect your opinion, but my post was far less off topic than many
> I have seen here. And there really is a relevance to photography, and
> to our list IMHO, to the conditions in Louisiana encountered by Dan
> to photography.
>
> And I agree with you about Dan's off-the-cuff remark. It should not
> have bothered anyone on the list. But the reaction to it, totally
> inane in my opinion, resulted in several people using extremely
> disgusting language.
>
> And just for the record, Tom, I have sent many messages to the list,
> and to certain individuals, in an effort to keep us on topic. But in
> the end, there is no way to eliminate all social and political
> commentary, and to do so would be self-destructive. Because in the
> end what is going on in New Orleans, the Gulf Coast and Iraq is a lot
> more important than alt photography. The issue is not what we
> discuss, but the manner in which we discuss it.
>
> As for responding point by point to my comments, feel free to do so
> off list if you don't find this an appropriate forum.
>
> Sandy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>Sandy, this is far far off topic and likely to do far more harm than
>>good. This is a photography list. This is an international list,
>>based in a non USA college.
>>
>>Dan's one sentence comment had enough humor to avoid annoying even a
>>libertarian type like me. What has followed in has, on the whole,
>>been hateful non tolerant USA political lecturing. I'm tempted to
>>respond point by point, but that would be inappropriate here.
>>
>>Please stop, this is a place that all alt photographers should feel
>
> welcome.
>
>>Tom
>>
>>On Apr 29, 2006, at 3:15 PM, Sandy King wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Well, now that some of us have had a chance to reflect on the
>>>goings on in the recent thread I have something to add.
>>>
>>>As we recall, part of the thread evolved from Dan Burkholder's
>>>comment that Dick Cheney should go hunting for quail in the slime
>>>and muck still in New Orleans. Dave Rose's comment was,
>>>essentially, what does Cheney have to do with New Orleans?
>>>
>>>OK, a belated response, that Dave may or may not hear. The fact of
>>>the matter is Cheney has everything to do with the situation in New
>>>Orleans. Folks there are in desperate need of some federal relief,
>>>but there has been very little forthcoming. And why is that? Well,
>>>one of the major reasons is that Dick Cheney's manipulations and
>>>lies led us to an elective war in Iraq that has squandered billions
>>>and billions of dollars. What is the figure now? 100 billion? 200
>>>billion? Too bad some of that money is not available to upgrade the
>>>levee system in New Orleans and for other important projects in the
>>>US. So that is what Dick Cheney has to do with the situation in New
>>>Orleans.
>>>
>>>And to suggest that Dan Burkholder's comment was a "snide" attack
>>>against republicans is to overlook the fact that his approval
>>>rating of 18% clearly means that more than half of all
>>>*republicans* reject him. I do, and although I am not a registered
>>>republican, I vote republican in state elections more often than
>>>democrat.
>>>
>>>And the relevance of this to photography? Well Dan Burkholder, and
>>>others, can go to New Orleans today, six months after Katrina, or
>>>to the Gulf Coast between Pass Christian and Biloxi, and take
>>>photographs of complete devastation. Is it not reasonable to assume
>>>that one of the major reasons there is no federal money to correct
>>>this situation is because of the needless waste of resources in a
>>>war in Iraq for which Dick Cheney bears considerable responsibility?
>>>
>>>Sandy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>So this guy walks into a psychiatrist's office and he's got a
>>>>pelican sitting on his head.
>>>>
>>>> He says to the psychiatrist, "I have a friend that has a problem
>>>>I'd like to talk to you about."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best Wishes,
>>>> Mark Nelson
>>>>Precision Digital Negatives--The Book
>>>>PDNPrint Forum at Yahoo Groups
>>>>www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
________________________________________________________________
   Bogdan Karasek
   Montral, Qubec            e-mail: bkarasek@videotron.ca
   Canada
                   "I photograph my reality"
__________________________________________________________________