Re: Anybody experimented with Argyrotypes?
Hi Loris...
Yes, I did try using Tween, which sometimes helped a bit...
Yes, the bleed is what I was experiencing...and...no hair dryer, just air
dry.
The papers were Platine, Fab EW, Arches cover, Rives BFK, Stonehenge and
Bienfang 360.
Extremely dilute selenium toning helped sometimes, as did acidification of
the paper (except 360 which is neutral-acid already).
I got maybe one good print (or at least acceptable) from each paper...the
last time I made a few there were no good prints at all. Like I said, it is
such an extremely fickle process and I'm not willing to pay $18 for a sheet
of paper to make it work.
Then again, I guess we pay up for chemicals (pt/pd) or paper (argys) to make
it all work for us, eh?
Best to you...
Paul
PS...by the way, I saw Linda Connor's exhibit at the CCP in Tucson, and
there were a lot of images from Turkey! Would love to visit someday...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Loris Medici" <mail@loris.medici.name>
To: <alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: Anybody experimented with Argyrotypes?
Paul, have you tried a surfactant? (Tween or something like that. Never
did for Argrotypes but I was using Ilfotol w/o any negative effects for
Classic Cyanotypes.) Any sensitizer with AFC will have difficulties in
soaking into the paper, maybe you were experiencing just that? (Indicated
by loosing image - if it's in the form of bleeding that is...) Were you
using a hair dryer à la platinum / kallitype? It's best to let the paper
in peace after coating for at least 10 minutes, to let the sensitizer soak
in.
All above in case of loosing image due bleeding. Which paper was that BTW?
Sam, were you diluting 1:1 or adding distilled water to make the coating
solutions volume 2x? For instance if your nominal coating soln. amnt. for
8x10" is 3ml you were using 1.5ml sensitizer + 1.5ml water or was that 3ml
sensitizer + 3ml water? If the latter maybe the extra water was helping
the coating solution penetrate into the paper. If the former than that is
a very interesting and useful piece of information!
Regards,
Loris.
21 Nisan 2009, Salı, 6:19 pm tarihinde, Paul Viapiano yazmış:
...
PS...actually you know the biggest problem I have is in the first water
bath clearing. I lose so much of the image here, even if I use distilled
water or add an acidic factor, unless I get it out of there in 10 seconds
or so...
----- Original Message -----
From: sam wang
To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: Anybody experimented with Argyrotypes?
You might try diluting it 1:1 with water. It seems to work a lot better
with most papers that way and DMax does not seem to be any lower.
However, with good papers such as COT 320, it may be a lot easier to fix
and wash thoroughly, and the tones are more smooth. For a cheap paper,
Crane's Weston works reasonably well.
Sam
On Apr 20, 2009, at 6:16 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote:
Yes...paper, paper, paper is so important. In fact, I will venture to
say that MOST papers do NOT work with this process in any satisfactory
way...
(hello...bitter...party of one?)
Paul
PS...did a previous post/reply from me on this subject get posted
here? It never showed up on my end...hmmm
----- Original Message -----
From: fernando cruz florez
To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: Anybody experimented with Argyrotypes?
My negatives are quite high-contrast as it is so it sounds perfect.
Thanks so much for the all advice. I'll write again once I've had a
chance to test it all out.
Thaks again,
Fernando Cruz
--
FotografÃa y diseño.
Fernando Cruz Florez
Para ver mi portafolio entre a:
fernandocruz.fotografiacolombiana.com
www.fotografiacolombiana.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cgcentrodelaimagen/
http://www.elangelcaido.org/muestras/2008/200812fcruz/200812fcruz.html
facebook fernandocruzf@gmail.com
skype fernandocruzflorez
telefono 57 1 3232287
movil 57 3108686025
2009/4/20 Loris Medici <mail@loris.medici.name>
You need pretty contrasty negatives for Argyrotype. Much more
contrasty
than what you'd need for silver gelatin. If your negatives are
exposed/developed for s/g printing, I'm afraid you won't be able
to get
nice contrasty/punchy Argyrotypes. (AFAIK, there's some contrast
control
with the chemistry but I'm not sure if that will suit negatives
optimized
for s/g printing.)
I don't think they're necessarily more stable than any other
process
giving colloidal silver image on plain paper - as long as the
images are
correctly processed/thoroughly cleared. Especially so when you
choose to
tone your images with noble metals.
I had good results with Bergger COT 320 paper (the only paper I
had used
for making Argyrotypes). As a rule of thumb, any paper that
doesn't give
problems with New Cyanotype is also good for Argyrotypes. Search
the web /
list archives for paper information.
If you extremely value image stability (and need the extra
protection)
then you should definitely tone your Argyrotypes (or
Vandykes/Kallitypes/Salt Prints) with gold, platinum or
palladium.
But be
aware that toning for extra longevity comes with the price of
changing the
original color of the image.
Regards,
Loris.
20 Nisan 2009, Pazartesi, 11:30 pm tarihinde, fernando cruz
florez
yazmı�:
> Thanks again for the quick response...
> I have some negatives in black and white which I want to use
for
an
> exhibition using this technique (Argyrotype). I've read a
couple
of books
> which suggest that this process is more stable than a couple of
other
> processes I was considering. Since you've experimented with
this
process
> are
> there any particular paper types (brands?) which you'd
recommed?
>
> I will have to mix the chemicals myself since they're not
available
> pre-made
> here in Colombia.
>
> I have some experience with the Bichromate Gum process from
when
I worked
> in
> Arte 2 Grafico (an artisanal/crafts workshop -
http://artedos.com/ ) but
> this is the first time I'm experimenting with this particular
process and
> the stability/longevity of the images to be used for the
exhibition is
> very
> important.
>
> Any other advice would be very welcome and greatly appreciated.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Fernando Cruz
>
> --
> FotografÃa y diseño.
> Fernando Cruz Florez
> Para ver mi portafolio entre a:
>
> fernandocruz.fotografiacolombiana.com
> www.fotografiacolombiana.com
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cgcentrodelaimagen/
>
http://www.elangelcaido.org/muestras/2008/200812fcruz/200812fcruz.html
>
> facebook fernandocruzf@gmail.com
> skype fernandocruzflorez
> telefono 57 1 3232287
> movil 57 3108686025
>
>
>
>
> 2009/4/20 Loris Medici <mail@loris.medici.name>
>
>> Fernando, I did. What exactly do you want to know?
>>
>> The first thing to mention is that it's a very picky process
when it
>> comes
>> to paper choices; you have to use the best and purest papers.
>>
>> Also, it's better to tone the image in gold before fixing, if
you value
>> longevity that is; colloidal silver in paper is pretty
vulnerable... And
>> the color + darkness is beautiful that way. (Pt or Pd toning
also is
>> possible, but, personally, I got best results with gold.)
>>
>> It's pretty easy to mix the solution - definitely more complex
than
>> Vandykes (if you have to compound silver oxide yourself) but
not a big
>> deal. Mix a volume enough for a couple of months (not longer
than 5-6
>> months), the solution will deteriorate and silver out as time
passes.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Loris.
>>
>>
>> 20 Nisan 2009, Pazartesi, 2:41 am tarihinde, fernando cruz
florez
>> yazmı�:
>> > ...
>> > I was wondering if there's anybody out there who's worked
with
>> Argyrotypes
>> > willing to share their experiences and tips/tricks for the
process.
>> > ...
>>
>
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