Re: Anybody experimented with Argyrotypes?
OK, then this definitely dilution to half. Very interesting -> will definitely try this if I ever return to Argyrotypes in the future... Also answering Paul: I was using the gold thiourea toner. But the gold salt was something different; it wasn't AuCl but KAuCl (worked fine for both toner and New Chrysotypes). I didn't noticed any perceptibly strong highlights bleaching in that toner, if had - I think that - it could be cured by calibrating taking the bleaching into account... Mike Ware says addition of glycerin (an idea I adapted from carbon printing - for when it's too dry) would give warmer/redder results. (2-6 drops per ml IIRC - have to see my mail archive...) Best regards, Loris. 21 Nisan 2009, Salı, 9:46 pm tarihinde, sam wang yazmış: > Loris, > > If I needed 3 ml, then I would use 1.5 ml plus 1.5 ml water. This > eliminates the "bleeding" in the first wash. The stretching of > chemical cost to half is not unwelcome either. > > What gold formula do you use? I used Clerc's, which worked well but it > bleached the lightest tones a little and left the highlight a little > cooler than I sometime would like. Wish I could find a warmer toner. > > At one time I used Nelson's gold toner for vandyke - the first few > prints were OK but next few were nice and red. Used further it became > unsatisfactory again. I suspect it was the thiosulfite that gave it > the deep red, but it would take just the right amount. I don't have > enough chemistry background to pursue it further. But if it worked for > vandyke I imagine it would work with Argyrotype as well. > > Sam > > On Apr 21, 2009, at 1:02 PM, Loris Medici wrote: > >> Paul, have you tried a surfactant? (Tween or something like that. >> Never >> did for Argrotypes but I was using Ilfotol w/o any negative effects >> for >> Classic Cyanotypes.) Any sensitizer with AFC will have difficulties in >> soaking into the paper, maybe you were experiencing just that? >> (Indicated >> by loosing image - if it's in the form of bleeding that is...) Were >> you >> using a hair dryer à la platinum / kallitype? It's best to let the >> paper >> in peace after coating for at least 10 minutes, to let the >> sensitizer soak >> in. >> >> All above in case of loosing image due bleeding. Which paper was >> that BTW? >> >> Sam, were you diluting 1:1 or adding distilled water to make the >> coating >> solutions volume 2x? For instance if your nominal coating soln. >> amnt. for >> 8x10" is 3ml you were using 1.5ml sensitizer + 1.5ml water or was >> that 3ml >> sensitizer + 3ml water? If the latter maybe the extra water was >> helping >> the coating solution penetrate into the paper. If the former than >> that is >> a very interesting and useful piece of information! >> >> Regards, >> Loris. >> >> >> 21 Nisan 2009, Salı, 6:19 pm tarihinde, Paul Viapiano yazmıÅ�: >>> ... >>> PS...actually you know the biggest problem I have is in the first >>> water >>> bath clearing. I lose so much of the image here, even if I use >>> distilled >>> water or add an acidic factor, unless I get it out of there in 10 >>> seconds >>> or so... >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: sam wang >>> To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 7:30 AM >>> Subject: Re: Anybody experimented with Argyrotypes? >>> >>> >>> You might try diluting it 1:1 with water. It seems to work a lot >>> better >>> with most papers that way and DMax does not seem to be any lower. >>> However, with good papers such as COT 320, it may be a lot easier >>> to fix >>> and wash thoroughly, and the tones are more smooth. For a cheap >>> paper, >>> Crane's Weston works reasonably well. >>> >>> >>> Sam >>> >>> >>> On Apr 20, 2009, at 6:16 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: >>> >>> >>> Yes...paper, paper, paper is so important. In fact, I will >>> venture to >>> say that MOST papers do NOT work with this process in any >>> satisfactory >>> way... >>> >>> (hello...bitter...party of one?) >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> PS...did a previous post/reply from me on this subject get posted >>> here? It never showed up on my end...hmmm >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: fernando cruz florez >>> To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca >>> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 2:44 PM >>> Subject: Re: Anybody experimented with Argyrotypes? >>> >>> >>> My negatives are quite high-contrast as it is so it sounds >>> perfect. >>> Thanks so much for the all advice. I'll write again once I've had a >>> chance to test it all out. >>> >>> >>> Thaks again, >>> >>> >>> Fernando Cruz >>> >>> -- >>> FotografÃ� a y diseÃ�±o. >>> Fernando Cruz Florez >>> Para ver mi portafolio entre a: >>> >>> fernandocruz.fotografiacolombiana.com >>> www.fotografiacolombiana.com >>> >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cgcentrodelaimagen/ >>> http://www.elangelcaido.org/muestras/2008/200812fcruz/200812fcruz.html >>> >>> facebook fernandocruzf@gmail.com >>> skype fernandocruzflorez >>> telefono 57 1 3232287 >>> movil 57 3108686025 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> 2009/4/20 Loris Medici <mail@loris.medici.name> >>> >>> You need pretty contrasty negatives for Argyrotype. Much more >>> contrasty >>> than what you'd need for silver gelatin. If your negatives are >>> exposed/developed for s/g printing, I'm afraid you won't be >>> able >>> to get >>> nice contrasty/punchy Argyrotypes. (AFAIK, there's some >>> contrast >>> control >>> with the chemistry but I'm not sure if that will suit >>> negatives >>> optimized >>> for s/g printing.) >>> >>> I don't think they're necessarily more stable than any other >>> process >>> giving colloidal silver image on plain paper - as long as the >>> images are >>> correctly processed/thoroughly cleared. Especially so when you >>> choose to >>> tone your images with noble metals. >>> >>> I had good results with Bergger COT 320 paper (the only >>> paper I >>> had used >>> for making Argyrotypes). As a rule of thumb, any paper that >>> doesn't give >>> problems with New Cyanotype is also good for Argyrotypes. >>> Search >>> the web / >>> list archives for paper information. >>> >>> If you extremely value image stability (and need the extra >>> protection) >>> then you should definitely tone your Argyrotypes (or >>> Vandykes/Kallitypes/Salt Prints) with gold, platinum or >>> palladium. >>> But be >>> aware that toning for extra longevity comes with the price of >>> changing the >>> original color of the image. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Loris. >>> >>> >>> 20 Nisan 2009, Pazartesi, 11:30 pm tarihinde, fernando cruz >>> florez >>> yazmÃ�±Ã��: >>> >>>> Thanks again for the quick response... >>>> I have some negatives in black and white which I want to use for >>> an >>>> exhibition using this technique (Argyrotype). I've read a couple >>> of books >>>> which suggest that this process is more stable than a couple of >>> other >>>> processes I was considering. Since you've experimented with this >>> process >>>> are >>>> there any particular paper types (brands?) which you'd recommed? >>>> >>>> I will have to mix the chemicals myself since they're not >>> available >>>> pre-made >>>> here in Colombia. >>>> >>>> I have some experience with the Bichromate Gum process from when >>> I worked >>>> in >>>> Arte 2 Grafico (an artisanal/crafts workshop - >>> http://artedos.com/ ) but >>>> this is the first time I'm experimenting with this particular >>> process and >>>> the stability/longevity of the images to be used for the >>> exhibition is >>>> very >>>> important. >>>> >>>> Any other advice would be very welcome and greatly appreciated. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Fernando Cruz >>>> >>>> -- >>>> FotografÃ� a y diseÃ�±o. >>>> Fernando Cruz Florez >>>> Para ver mi portafolio entre a: >>>> >>>> fernandocruz.fotografiacolombiana.com >>>> www.fotografiacolombiana.com >>>> >>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cgcentrodelaimagen/ >>>> http://www.elangelcaido.org/muestras/2008/200812fcruz/200812fcruz.html >>>> >>>> facebook fernandocruzf@gmail.com >>>> skype fernandocruzflorez >>>> telefono 57 1 3232287 >>>> movil 57 3108686025 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 2009/4/20 Loris Medici <mail@loris.medici.name> >>>> >>>>> Fernando, I did. What exactly do you want to know? >>>>> >>>>> The first thing to mention is that it's a very picky process >>> when it >>>>> comes >>>>> to paper choices; you have to use the best and purest papers. >>>>> >>>>> Also, it's better to tone the image in gold before fixing, if >>> you value >>>>> longevity that is; colloidal silver in paper is pretty >>> vulnerable... And >>>>> the color + darkness is beautiful that way. (Pt or Pd toning >>> also is >>>>> possible, but, personally, I got best results with gold.) >>>>> >>>>> It's pretty easy to mix the solution - definitely more complex >>> than >>>>> Vandykes (if you have to compound silver oxide yourself) but >>> not a big >>>>> deal. Mix a volume enough for a couple of months (not longer >>> than 5-6 >>>>> months), the solution will deteriorate and silver out as time >>> passes. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Loris. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 20 Nisan 2009, Pazartesi, 2:41 am tarihinde, fernando cruz >>> florez >>>>> yazmÃ�±Ã��: >>>>>> ... >>>>>> I was wondering if there's anybody out there who's worked >>> with >>>>> Argyrotypes >>>>>> willing to share their experiences and tips/tricks for the >>> process. >>>>>> ... >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > >
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