Re: Anybody experimented with Argyrotypes?
OK, then this definitely dilution to half. Very interesting -> will
definitely try this if I ever return to Argyrotypes in the future...
Also answering Paul:
I was using the gold thiourea toner. But the gold salt was something
different; it wasn't AuCl but KAuCl (worked fine for both toner and New
Chrysotypes). I didn't noticed any perceptibly strong highlights bleaching
in that toner, if had - I think that - it could be cured by calibrating
taking the bleaching into account...
Mike Ware says addition of glycerin (an idea I adapted from carbon
printing - for when it's too dry) would give warmer/redder results. (2-6
drops per ml IIRC - have to see my mail archive...)
Best regards,
Loris.
21 Nisan 2009, Salı, 9:46 pm tarihinde, sam wang yazmış:
> Loris,
>
> If I needed 3 ml, then I would use 1.5 ml plus 1.5 ml water. This
> eliminates the "bleeding" in the first wash. The stretching of
> chemical cost to half is not unwelcome either.
>
> What gold formula do you use? I used Clerc's, which worked well but it
> bleached the lightest tones a little and left the highlight a little
> cooler than I sometime would like. Wish I could find a warmer toner.
>
> At one time I used Nelson's gold toner for vandyke - the first few
> prints were OK but next few were nice and red. Used further it became
> unsatisfactory again. I suspect it was the thiosulfite that gave it
> the deep red, but it would take just the right amount. I don't have
> enough chemistry background to pursue it further. But if it worked for
> vandyke I imagine it would work with Argyrotype as well.
>
> Sam
>
> On Apr 21, 2009, at 1:02 PM, Loris Medici wrote:
>
>> Paul, have you tried a surfactant? (Tween or something like that.
>> Never
>> did for Argrotypes but I was using Ilfotol w/o any negative effects
>> for
>> Classic Cyanotypes.) Any sensitizer with AFC will have difficulties in
>> soaking into the paper, maybe you were experiencing just that?
>> (Indicated
>> by loosing image - if it's in the form of bleeding that is...) Were
>> you
>> using a hair dryer à la platinum / kallitype? It's best to let the
>> paper
>> in peace after coating for at least 10 minutes, to let the
>> sensitizer soak
>> in.
>>
>> All above in case of loosing image due bleeding. Which paper was
>> that BTW?
>>
>> Sam, were you diluting 1:1 or adding distilled water to make the
>> coating
>> solutions volume 2x? For instance if your nominal coating soln.
>> amnt. for
>> 8x10" is 3ml you were using 1.5ml sensitizer + 1.5ml water or was
>> that 3ml
>> sensitizer + 3ml water? If the latter maybe the extra water was
>> helping
>> the coating solution penetrate into the paper. If the former than
>> that is
>> a very interesting and useful piece of information!
>>
>> Regards,
>> Loris.
>>
>>
>> 21 Nisan 2009, Salı, 6:19 pm tarihinde, Paul Viapiano yazmı�:
>>> ...
>>> PS...actually you know the biggest problem I have is in the first
>>> water
>>> bath clearing. I lose so much of the image here, even if I use
>>> distilled
>>> water or add an acidic factor, unless I get it out of there in 10
>>> seconds
>>> or so...
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: sam wang
>>> To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 7:30 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Anybody experimented with Argyrotypes?
>>>
>>>
>>> You might try diluting it 1:1 with water. It seems to work a lot
>>> better
>>> with most papers that way and DMax does not seem to be any lower.
>>> However, with good papers such as COT 320, it may be a lot easier
>>> to fix
>>> and wash thoroughly, and the tones are more smooth. For a cheap
>>> paper,
>>> Crane's Weston works reasonably well.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sam
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 20, 2009, at 6:16 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes...paper, paper, paper is so important. In fact, I will
>>> venture to
>>> say that MOST papers do NOT work with this process in any
>>> satisfactory
>>> way...
>>>
>>> (hello...bitter...party of one?)
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> PS...did a previous post/reply from me on this subject get posted
>>> here? It never showed up on my end...hmmm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: fernando cruz florez
>>> To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
>>> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 2:44 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Anybody experimented with Argyrotypes?
>>>
>>>
>>> My negatives are quite high-contrast as it is so it sounds
>>> perfect.
>>> Thanks so much for the all advice. I'll write again once I've had a
>>> chance to test it all out.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thaks again,
>>>
>>>
>>> Fernando Cruz
>>>
>>> --
>>> Fotograf� a y dise�±o.
>>> Fernando Cruz Florez
>>> Para ver mi portafolio entre a:
>>>
>>> fernandocruz.fotografiacolombiana.com
>>> www.fotografiacolombiana.com
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cgcentrodelaimagen/
>>> http://www.elangelcaido.org/muestras/2008/200812fcruz/200812fcruz.html
>>>
>>> facebook fernandocruzf@gmail.com
>>> skype fernandocruzflorez
>>> telefono 57 1 3232287
>>> movil 57 3108686025
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2009/4/20 Loris Medici <mail@loris.medici.name>
>>>
>>> You need pretty contrasty negatives for Argyrotype. Much more
>>> contrasty
>>> than what you'd need for silver gelatin. If your negatives are
>>> exposed/developed for s/g printing, I'm afraid you won't be
>>> able
>>> to get
>>> nice contrasty/punchy Argyrotypes. (AFAIK, there's some
>>> contrast
>>> control
>>> with the chemistry but I'm not sure if that will suit
>>> negatives
>>> optimized
>>> for s/g printing.)
>>>
>>> I don't think they're necessarily more stable than any other
>>> process
>>> giving colloidal silver image on plain paper - as long as the
>>> images are
>>> correctly processed/thoroughly cleared. Especially so when you
>>> choose to
>>> tone your images with noble metals.
>>>
>>> I had good results with Bergger COT 320 paper (the only
>>> paper I
>>> had used
>>> for making Argyrotypes). As a rule of thumb, any paper that
>>> doesn't give
>>> problems with New Cyanotype is also good for Argyrotypes.
>>> Search
>>> the web /
>>> list archives for paper information.
>>>
>>> If you extremely value image stability (and need the extra
>>> protection)
>>> then you should definitely tone your Argyrotypes (or
>>> Vandykes/Kallitypes/Salt Prints) with gold, platinum or
>>> palladium.
>>> But be
>>> aware that toning for extra longevity comes with the price of
>>> changing the
>>> original color of the image.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Loris.
>>>
>>>
>>> 20 Nisan 2009, Pazartesi, 11:30 pm tarihinde, fernando cruz
>>> florez
>>> yazm�±��:
>>>
>>>> Thanks again for the quick response...
>>>> I have some negatives in black and white which I want to use for
>>> an
>>>> exhibition using this technique (Argyrotype). I've read a couple
>>> of books
>>>> which suggest that this process is more stable than a couple of
>>> other
>>>> processes I was considering. Since you've experimented with this
>>> process
>>>> are
>>>> there any particular paper types (brands?) which you'd recommed?
>>>>
>>>> I will have to mix the chemicals myself since they're not
>>> available
>>>> pre-made
>>>> here in Colombia.
>>>>
>>>> I have some experience with the Bichromate Gum process from when
>>> I worked
>>>> in
>>>> Arte 2 Grafico (an artisanal/crafts workshop -
>>> http://artedos.com/ ) but
>>>> this is the first time I'm experimenting with this particular
>>> process and
>>>> the stability/longevity of the images to be used for the
>>> exhibition is
>>>> very
>>>> important.
>>>>
>>>> Any other advice would be very welcome and greatly appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>> Fernando Cruz
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Fotograf� a y dise�±o.
>>>> Fernando Cruz Florez
>>>> Para ver mi portafolio entre a:
>>>>
>>>> fernandocruz.fotografiacolombiana.com
>>>> www.fotografiacolombiana.com
>>>>
>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cgcentrodelaimagen/
>>>> http://www.elangelcaido.org/muestras/2008/200812fcruz/200812fcruz.html
>>>>
>>>> facebook fernandocruzf@gmail.com
>>>> skype fernandocruzflorez
>>>> telefono 57 1 3232287
>>>> movil 57 3108686025
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2009/4/20 Loris Medici <mail@loris.medici.name>
>>>>
>>>>> Fernando, I did. What exactly do you want to know?
>>>>>
>>>>> The first thing to mention is that it's a very picky process
>>> when it
>>>>> comes
>>>>> to paper choices; you have to use the best and purest papers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, it's better to tone the image in gold before fixing, if
>>> you value
>>>>> longevity that is; colloidal silver in paper is pretty
>>> vulnerable... And
>>>>> the color + darkness is beautiful that way. (Pt or Pd toning
>>> also is
>>>>> possible, but, personally, I got best results with gold.)
>>>>>
>>>>> It's pretty easy to mix the solution - definitely more complex
>>> than
>>>>> Vandykes (if you have to compound silver oxide yourself) but
>>> not a big
>>>>> deal. Mix a volume enough for a couple of months (not longer
>>> than 5-6
>>>>> months), the solution will deteriorate and silver out as time
>>> passes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Loris.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 20 Nisan 2009, Pazartesi, 2:41 am tarihinde, fernando cruz
>>> florez
>>>>> yazm�±��:
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> I was wondering if there's anybody out there who's worked
>>> with
>>>>> Argyrotypes
>>>>>> willing to share their experiences and tips/tricks for the
>>> process.
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>